Religious is very strong

[sam70001]

yet, not a 100 percent proof that it is a fact! ah, yes those myth and faith thing putting your life, your thought and everything that you believe in, into someone's own imagination written by fool for fool.. whether it is true, we are not sure. That my friend has alot of burden to it. You either live happily or miserably, it's really up to you. they sound intelligent yet make accusation of ourselves, the human race as inferior species when compared to that nonexistence god that we will never meet in our lifetime. far from it, and out of this world, is just another insanity running around like goose loose. creation is some people's way of explain how life come to be, is a myth, not a fact. someone please get this straight to your head. use logic, use reasoning, don't use illogical thought. The impossible, like poof! we are here because of our sins etc...
to prove them wrong, we would be accused of doing satan's work. btw, who is the hell is satan, have you seen this guy?
if it sound to good be true then it maybe is, use common sense folks. alway worked for me, so why wouldn't it for anyone else?

What a crazy world we live in, full of confusion and uncertainity. soemtime we are funny, sometime sad, othertime freaked out...because high on weed, crack, etc.

why it is impossible to brainwash me? because I have a mechanism called logic, it often kicks in after a day or two, then i come to my sense, then say wtf? then I go hmm... goddamnit, this cannot be! because i am fond of computer, robots and machine and religous freak hate them as if they are the tools of the devil. if so let stop using it, let's just eat and sleep like a sheep and do nothing else...
After reading all of this crap on creation, it bothers me alot. look like I am infected by a virus. I then called up a program called format, which cleanse out just about every thought and i start all over again. phew! what a relief...

[yakko]

I then called up a program called format, which cleanse out just about every thought and i start all over again. phew! what a relief...

That explains so much. Thank you for explaining all your posts for us with that last bit.

[sam70001]

like i said, either you with them or against them. There are no in between. life is much more complicated then that, you can't just put it in words, written into books that so many people take seriously, word for word. You find me funny, but I was not trying to amuse you. Oh well maybe someday, things will fix itself. who cares right?

[yakko]

You obviously didn't get my joke. so sad.

[Gratch06]

Hmm...I notice a total lack of common sense in your post. The reasoning lacks any sort of basis in fact, and lacks the logic that you so firmly support. A rambling rant against religion with no serious backup. I would love to see your logic sometime =). No offense against you personally...you're allowed to believe what you will. I just don't take kindly to uninformed bashing. You've been told the logic exists, now prove to me that you actually know what some of it is instead of making a fool out of yourself by broad statements lacking a logical basis.

Point: back up your ranting with real support and I don't have too much of an issue. All you're doing is venting.

- Gratch

[Splicer]

Well sam you keep looking at stuff in black and white.

I'll try my best to see things in color.

[sam70001]

I guess i spedn too much time aruging with myself that I ccan barely focus at all. thing are getting so blurred. I have lack of understanding of life itself. I do don't i? or just talking shit our of my ass. damn. <--- but i am very certain that I was correct
or you all saying i am wrong? that I am just blowing air? thanks, I take that as a compliment!

[sam70001]

You obviously didn't get my joke. so sad.

a joke? but i am not laughing. dude i am crying.

[GargoyleMT]

Maybe it's just my dazed, post-workday mind, but your original post to this thread seems like a stream-of-concsiousness dictation by someone with a very short attention span.

Are you caffinated or otherwise drugged? I hope so, and that you get clean soon. Really. I wouldn't wish a thought pattern like that on... anyone. Bits of what you say make sense, but it lacks overall cohesion; it just rambles.

Heh.

[OLDoMiNiON]

heh, an interesting thread.
However there are many things which i disagree with you about.
For example

" into someone's own imagination written by fool for fool.. "

ok, lets analyse that statement. First you are calling the writers of the Bible, or any other "book of faith" so to speak, fools. ..and then you state that people who read and believe them are also fools! then you go onto say that we don't know if they are true of false.. therefore what makes the person who believes in what is said in them, to be any more foolish than the person who doesn't? ...you understand? (probably not, heh, i'm kinda babbling on there also,

" because i am fond of computer, robots and machine and religous freak hate them as if they are the tools of the devil. if so let stop using it, let's just eat and sleep like a sheep and do nothing else..."

lmao. surely that is merely the mis-understandiing of the "religous" person, rather than a mistake in the written text that they adhere to?

My thoughts. Maybe you should try making your own mind up about what is said in the book you are reading. Don't take other people's words for it - they are often wrong. Blinded by their desire to twist word meanings, and contexts, to meet their own idea of right and wrong. Use you logic. However don't limit it to your initial thoughts and impressions, remember that things are often more complicated than they initially apear, and require more thought. Some things would be best left alone until you are more clear headed on certain issues.

Just my advice - most of it probably doesn't make sence... lol, i'm too busy listening to: GU Afterhours (CD 1)

Kind Regards
OLDo

[jbyrd]

Here's my two cents.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, alot of religious people try to push their views on unsuspecting others, while the "non-believers" keep their views to themselves. You see, I can visualize someone posting a pro-religious post (as opposed to the "anti"-religious post) and the replies would be more carefully thought out. Not saying that any of the replies so far have been harsh, but the latter would be more less so.

If you have ever noticed, people are much more likely to proclaim their faith (if they have it) than denounce it (if they don't). The reason is that believers typically look down on/lose respect for the non-believers. It is not the same for the other case. In fact, many times the non-believer claims to have faith that he doesn't simply to escape the persecution that may soon follow an atheist proclaimation.

It's kind of funny, however, that if you have two people from two different religions or denominations, they will not take pause to tell one another. Many are righteous and want everyone to know that they follow a higher being. (Guess what I am saying is that it is OK to be religious, but not OK to be atheist.)

To me, someone that practices a religion is not religious. To me, religious is an undesired thing. When I say religious (not religion), I do not mean christianity, islamic, etc. I mean the rituals and routines that go along with the different denominations. People need to worship for themselves, and not for others. Rituals and routines simply dilute the real meaning of GOD, whatever he may be.

It's kind of like when you tell someone you love them, but the words have lost their true meaning...

I would like to say, also, that most that practice a certain religion claim that it is the right one, the only one, the supreme religion. Sadly, though, they have not explored other religions, other denominations. These people are truely sad. The search for the true meaning of life will, in the end, be based on faith...but if all options are not explored, it is an incredibly ignorant to claim everyone else is wrong.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"If you have ever noticed, people are much more likely to proclaim their faith (if they have it) than denounce it (if they don't). The reason is that believers typically look down on/lose respect for the non-believers. It is not the same for the other case. In fact, many times the non-believer claims to have faith that he doesn't simply to escape the persecution that may soon follow an atheist proclaimation."

Why? Because they beleve that they should share this wonderful thing that they have, with other people. Maybe they don't want it.. that's their prerogative. However, someone trying to "force" their "religion" on you if often far from the truth. They simply wish to share with you what they find to be very important and meaningful! If they do force it on you, or you fee lthey they are, just tell them - i'm sure they would be very apologetic.

"To me, someone that practices a religion is not religious. To me, religious is an undesired thing. When I say religious (not religion), I do not mean christianity, islamic, etc. I mean the rituals and routines that go along with the different denominations. People need to worship for themselves, and not for others. Rituals and routines simply dilute the real meaning of GOD, whatever he may be. "

You are *absolutely* correct! I, even as a christian, dislike using the using the word "religion", as people often take it the wrong way. They associate the word with all kinds of rituals, mary worshiping, and the like. Which, quite frankly puts them off! I'll second you advice - make your *own* mind up about these type of issues! No other person can tell you the exact truth, as many things are vague at best. It's simply their opinion, or one that has been taught to them.

"I would like to say, also, that most that practice a certain religion claim that it is the right one, the only one, the supreme religion. Sadly, though, they have not explored other religions, other denominations. These people are truely sad. The search for the true meaning of life will, in the end, be based on faith...but if all options are not explored, it is an incredibly ignorant to claim everyone else is wrong."

Not sure i agree with you on that one. I would not go out and take a day sampler on the teachings of "Lucifer and his seven minions" (lol), or whatever, simply because my faith goes against that completely! You do not have to sample every wine to tell the best one - often the most expense is the most luxurious

[jbyrd]

Not sure i agree with you on that one. I would not go out and take a day sampler on the teachings of "Lucifer and his seven minions" (lol), or whatever, simply because my faith goes against that completely! You do not have to sample every wine to tell the best one - often the most expense is the most luxurious

What is against your religion? Studying Lucifer, or other religions? If your religion is against studying other religions, you have some soul searching to do. Living so blindly is dangerous.

About the wine analogy, you do have to try everyone to tell which is best for you. I guarantee, there is no concensus in the wine community which is best. Everyone has their favorite. If you always buy the most expensive one, you're likely to get ripped off!


How can you be so sure that how you live your life is the best way? Sure, you've enjoyed being a christian, and that makes you happy. Fine. But many fine christians proclaim that those who are not christian will burn in hell, regardless of how they lived their life. Furthermore, many islamics believe that it is their duty to kill the infidels. Sure, as a christian, you can say that the islamic religion is wrong. But as an islamic, they think you are wrong.

So, who is right? You or them? How can you say for sure? Faith? Let me tell you, faith is something that is gained from knowing what else is out there. If you don't know what the islamic religion is about (read about it, study it), there is no way of *knowing* you're right. Sure, you may claim to know enough about all the other world's religions to make a good judgement, but you and I know that if you would have grown up in the same part of the world as your islamic cohort, then you would be preaching the same stuff he is.

The reason most people don't study other religions is, #1, they're lazy...#2, they are afraid (subconciously) what they may discover about their own faith.

You and I both look at the ancient Greek Gods as bizarre and rediculous. We all know that they do not exist, that it is all far-fetched. Well, surprisingly, there are others that believe modern day religions are ludicrious as well. It's quite ironic. And what's even more incredible is that in 3000 years, christianity/islamic/etc may be looked at in the same way.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"But many fine christians proclaim that those who are not christian will burn in hell, regardless of how they lived their life."

Well, many christians will be judged, as they have judged others. This it the reason why christains should not condemn people to hell - it says not to in the bible! I find it so hypocritical when people do that. Who here is without sin? No-one. So who can judge others? Noone.

"So, who is right? You or them? How can you say for sure? Faith? Let me tell you, faith is something that is gained from knowing what else is out there. If you don't know what the islamic religion is about (read about it, study it), there is no way of *knowing* you're right. Sure, you may claim to know enough about all the other world's religions to make a good judgement, but you and I know that if you would have grown up in the same part of the world as your islamic cohort, then you would be preaching the same stuff he is."

My faith is not blind. It is based uppon my personal experience.. more than just on some text in an ancient book! Do you think i would believe it if i was simply told to base my faith simply on writings done by me many years ago, without personal proof? I wouldn't.
I have looked at many other religions, i got an A grade in GCSE - lol.
There are many things about all religions that simply don't add up. The most prominent two being "Christians" - the sad facts about their past exploits of black men, due to a gross misunderstanding of the scripture. As well as the more current Islamic Extremists who decide that the writings in their holy book tell them to start bombing people. In both instances - many people disagree with their interpretations, and these are the people who suffer, due to the bad press acompanied by acts of extremism, and mis-conception! It's so sad that people have to use religion as an excuse to do bad things. But that's just how some people's minds work i suppose.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"writings done by me many years ago,"

should be

"writings done by men* many years ago,"

whoops :-S

[jbyrd]

probably just a fraudian slip.


*yes, pun intended.

[sam70001]

It's been awhile hasn't it?
religious has almost consumed me completely because i am losing faith in life itself, then realizing it's just my emotion. it's not real, it's just all fake... <people can believe whatever they want to as long as it doesn't affect how they live! often they go too far praying to god before dinner, praying when thing don't go right, praying when they are hurting... goes to show you how weak they are and not wanting to face the truth, or to deal with it without some help from the all know greatest being in the universe, god! Because someone has not pointed out to them and let them know that their is no such thing. so I be the first Un-Jesus Christ for the first time in 4.5 billion years or so. i THINK THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE SO MANY SUICIDE IN HISTORY, THE JAPANESE ARE VERY FAMOUS FOUR DOING THAT...<----------there is no way you folk going to turn me into sheeps, i will not produce children like all of you who often live in a fantasy world that don't even exist in real life. because you see true knowledge is not from a book but from what you learned and able to tell from right to wrong, it is to be truly different from the rest of the crowd, daring to to stand out and never take advice from others who think they're always right!
This dude claiming that he is a true christian, what a hippocrite!
he say a lot of thing that are full of nonsense, then another dude next to him said he doing god's work. hahahahaha!!!
btw, man created god in his image not the other way around...
you see, see?
I figured out wtf am I here? because people in general are horny, they married then produce kid to be fruitful just like their parent did. Being blind to the truth, one cannot stand being alone, they want to be with someone inorder to be happy to satisfy their sexual need, having many children is not a blessing, it is a burden and leads to more problem, a never ending cycle that will only end when the world end or man destroy himself with nukes. Amen, The End. Peace...

[jbyrd]

sam, are you still there?

Guys, I sure hope he didn't do what I think he did...

RIP sam70001

[OLDoMiNiON]

"This dude claiming that he is a true christian, what a hippocrite!"

lol, i'm a hypocrite? how do you know? do you know me? have you ever met me? can you even spell hypocrite???
I'm sorry mate, but i'm not the one blinded by my "faith", you are. You seem to believe that there is nothing in this world worth living, and that you are better off commiting suicide? is that what you are trying to say? ...who is blind?? me, or you????? ..think about that. Your unwillingness to believe in something outside the physical bounds of your five senses has indeed blinded you to the point that you believe life is not worth living. so sad.

"btw, man created god in his image not the other way around..."

yeah... and your point is?


i'm sorry, but your arguments just seem to be a ramble of spontaneous babble. they don't make sense.

hey, good look with your journey to finding faith in something...
God bless

[TheParanoidOne]

can you even spell hypocrite???

You've got it wrong. He's not calling you a hypocrite. He's calling you a hippo.

But seriously, I don't think you should take anything written by sam70001 with any level of seriousness.

i'm sorry, but your arguments just seem to be a ramble of spontaneous babble. they don't make sense.

Exactly! No logical structure or coherence. Contradictory in some places. As I said, don't take it too seriously.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"He's calling you a hippo." lol, oohhhh, right..... my bad
i'll just get on the phone to the "heavies". ain't nobody gonna be calling me a large water-dwelling fat-footed vegan mammal! :-S

[sam70001]

I know very well that why im here and why you're here. Its like an accident that started billion of years ago. maybe too complicated for a mere human like us to comprehend such thing, its deeply buried inside your brain cell that to dig it up would drive you to insanity. This is why religion are so crazy, they are too focused and saying things that that get you inside out, reaches deep into your root. pretty scary stuff if you ask me but I have found none to be true.
matter cannot be destroyed but they can be converted to something else, water when heat vaporized into the atmosphere. The most contradicting thing is the bible, because it say god created something from nothing and there cannot be just 1 which is what we claim to be god, there are at least 2 different forces in the universe in order to start a reaction much like positive and negative that attract each other which causes thing to spark up much like turning on your car. You can't just have negative, or positive. now if you claiming that god is only 1 then you have been very mislead and haven't yet question any of this to be valid.
hey may as well rub to stick together to make fire, who need a lighter right? the old fasion way seem to be cooler but also too primitive.
LOL!!!
Have a nice day, I am done just hope you folk don't think I am one crazy fool who doing to die anytime soon!
PEACE, and may god be with you forever and ever, Amen...

[GargoyleMT]

The most contradicting thing is the bible, because it say god created something from nothing and there cannot be just 1 which is what we claim to be god, there are at least 2 different forces in the universe in order to start a reaction much like positive and negative that attract each other which causes thing to spark up much like turning on your car.

You win the prize for figuring out that a scientific explantion of the universe is at odds with the religious explanation for the universe. However, there's no way that you can't prove that God does not simply cause things to happen in ways that we approximate by our laws of Physics.

The law you're quoting if, of course, Newton's Third Law of Motion. However, you have twisted it around. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction (Paraphrase). It does not say that you need two forces. I suppose you could be intending a deeper meaning (where your interpretation is correct), but given your style of writing, I sincerely doubt that is the case.

[jbyrd]

Another thing that bothers me so much about religion is that it doesn't change with the developments in science. It seems that everyone today has to choose between science or religion, and I don't believe that they are truly different. The most important one to me is evolution.

Maybe I can get some feedback on this ( ), why do most people that believe in a supreme being have something against natural selection? Why is it so contradictory to their faith? Why is it so hard to believe? Why can't you believe in both?

Please, clear this up for me.

[GargoyleMT]

Maybe I can get some feedback on this ( ), why do most people that believe in a supreme being have something against natural selection? Why is it so contradictory to their faith? Why is it so hard to believe? Why can't you believe in both?

For some people, there is no contradiction. The most powerful anecdotal evidence available to me is that my High School Physics professor was a very religious man; he even had occasional bible study sessions for those who were interested. He believed in Physics, yet also believed that it was a tool (and not the only tool) that God used to create all of *this*.

[OLDoMiNiON]

The only thing that strikes me about you sam70001 is that you love to pick appart other people views, albeit, not very well.. heh

How naive to limit God, whether he exists or not, to have powers the are bound by the laws of Physics. If he created them.. why would he be bound by them?

[jbyrd]

For some people, there is no contradiction.

Um, that was Physics. The question I had was Biological--Natural Selection.

Most people are unable to believe in both Evolution and Creation. They take the story of Adam and Eve so literally that they are sure that Evolution is in direct contradiction with the theory of Creation.

So, who out there believes in both?

[cologic]

why do most people that believe in a supreme being have something against natural selection?

In the US at least, this question relies on a false premise. Most people that believe in a supreme being do not have something against natural selection (the most one can reasonably get out of those numbers, 82% being Christian and 49% believing in evolution according to Gallup's poll, leaves you 17% short of a majority, and ABC's online poll in the sidebar to the right makes your position look even sillier).

[OLDoMiNiON]

"Um, that was Physics. The question I had was Biological--Natural Selection.
Most people are unable to believe in both Evolution and Creation. They take the story of Adam and Eve so literally that they are sure that Evolution is in direct contradiction with the theory of Creation.
So, who out there believes in both?"

Me. ..i can't help but believe in Physics, as it's obvious that a lot of the laws it holds, are true. Biology; natrural selection and the like... i don't know. My problem believing some of this stuff is that scientists are mainly playing at guesswork... lots of their theories are based on assumptions about things they don't really have much knowledge on.
Personally, i chose to take the creaton story litterally. Who is to say that Gods "day" at that time was the same as what a day is deffined as now? The fact is, that he started creating things each "day" before he even invented the period of 24 hours comprised of "night and day". The story and the science don't necissarily contradict each other... only if you make certain assumption, and refuse to take anything with a "pinch of salt".

Enough ramblings!
Chris

[jbyrd]

Biology; natrural selection and the like... i don't know. My problem believing some of this stuff is that scientists are mainly playing at guesswork... lots of their theories are based on assumptions about things they don't really have much knowledge on.

For some reason, you pause at the thought of natural selection because there is too much guesswork, but at the same time you embrace the theory of creation which involves many more assumptions and things that you don't really have much knowledge on. I understand that you have faith in your beliefs, but I can't really see how Adam and Eve make more sense than the Scientific explanation.
Earlier in the post, I recommended to all that they should read more than just the bible. I stated that other religious texts are important to finding what is right for you instead of practicing "blind faith". Well, here, I will recommend reading Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species". By reading it you will have a much better understanding of how natural selection is proposed to work, and the knowledge that OLDoMiNiON claims that doesn't exist. There is, in fact, a plethora of knowledge on the subject.
If you haven't read it, then you will have a hard time finding flaws in the theory.

The fact is, that he started creating things each "day" before he even invented the period of 24 hours comprised of "night and day". The story and the science don't necissarily contradict each other... only if you make certain assumption, and refuse to take anything with a "pinch of salt".

Well, the reason they are so contradictory is that Evolution would mean that humans were NOT the first beings to inhabit the planet. This is a huge contradiction to the theory of Creation. Regardless of what was meant by "a day" in the book of Genesis, there was nothing before Man.

In the US at least, this question relies on a false premise.

I'm sorry to say, but there is a HUGE logical flaw in the numbers you present. One poll claims that 82% of Americans are christian, yet only 49% think that God had NOTHING to do with the creation of man! That is, well, rediculous.

I, in fact, believe that 49% of America believes that God had nothing to do with creation. But, I don't believe that 82% are Christian. The reason for this is that there is a great hesitation to say that you do not believe in a supreme being (I stated this earlier in this thread). In america, "everyone" believes that christ is the messiah. The reason being, we were all raised this way...or we are surrounded by it.

By Christian, I don't mean those that "claim" they are Christian...I mean those that actually practice the religion and worship Christ. The numbers given in the gallop polls are literally worthless because of the pressure by american society to believe in some deity. Out of the actual practicing christians, which I estimate to be about 35-40%, MOST if not NEARLY ALL take the story of Genesis literally. The theory of Creation is the essence of present-day Christianity...

[TheParanoidOne]

47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[cologic]

47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

No, no, it's 63%.

numbers given in the gallop polls are literally worthless because of the pressure by american society to believe in some deity.

I've felt no pressure, and I live in American society. In any case, someone isn't necessarily any less of a Christian if one's adopted that religion due to societal pressure.

Out of the actual practicing christians, which I estimate to be about 35-40%, MOST if not NEARLY ALL take the story of Genesis literally. The theory of Creation is the essence of present-day Christianity...

If someone claims he's Christian, he is Christian. There are too many varying sects and branches of Christianity for anyone else to make that judgement for him.

[jbyrd]

I've felt no pressure, and I live in American society. In any case, someone isn't necessarily any less of a Christian if one's adopted that religion due to societal pressure.

I define a Christian as "One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus." I don't really think it counts if you just claim to do so. Also, a true Christian WANTS to be one, and is does not need to be forced to worship.

Therefore, all of the replies that I have posted are directed toward the particular branch of Christians that actually practice what they preach.



So, cologic, are you a Christian?

[GargoyleMT]

So, cologic, are you a Christian?

I ate the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood once. Mmm. Jesus is tasty!

[jbyrd]

I ate the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood once. Mmm. Jesus is tasty!

Well, personally, I enjoy cheese with my wine...

[cologic]

So, cologic, are you a Christian?

No, I'm not religious.

I define a Christian as "One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."

You've just included many in that group who would have been excluded under the "believes in literal creation" criterion; which one do you want?

Also, a true Christian WANTS to be one, and is does not need to be forced to worship.

How is parental pressure better than wider societal pressure? Religion runs in families quite frequently due to this effect, so if you want to exclude (essentially, though I know not genetically) hereditary religion, you've excluded most of the people whom I'd bet you're willing to call Christians. This clearly isn't a useful distinction, then.

To sum up, many Christians do reconcile evolution and Biblical creation, no matter how ridiculous it looks to you.

[jbyrd]

You've just included many in that group who would have been excluded under the "believes in literal creation" criterion; which one do you want?

Hmm...I would have to say that people who actually practice christianity are much more likely to disapprove of Evolution than those that just say they are christian.

How is parental pressure better than wider societal pressure? Religion runs in families quite frequently due to this effect, so if you want to exclude (essentially, though I know not genetically) hereditary religion, you've excluded most of the people whom I'd bet you're willing to call Christians. This clearly isn't a useful distinction, then.

Ok. I see what you're saying.

But, this is what I'm saying. There is a difference between parental pressure and societal pressure. Parental pressure effects young children. Societal pressure more effects adolescents and adults.

At some point, you have to become mature enough to forget about your parents wishes, block out society's influence, and make a decision for yourself. For me, that meant reading all the religious books I could get my hands on as well as alternate theories (Natural Selection).

Most people don't go to all this trouble, because they *know* that their religion is the "right" religion. But, I find satisfaction in knowing that the road I now follow is the right road for me.

To be honest, I have little respect for those that don't take the time to find out for themselves what is right, and take their parents' or society's word for it. The meaning of life is the most important thing there is, and it is very pathetic to let others decide for you what that meaning is.

To sum up, many Christians do reconcile evolution and Biblical creation, no matter how ridiculous it looks to you.

%Many% is an exageration.
Evolution implies that there was life before Mankind.
Evolution implies that man was made from something else.
Evolution implies that the book of Genesis in the bible is not literal (at all) Evolution implies that the earth has been here for billions, not thousands, of years.

From my extensive experience, Christians DO take the book of Genesis literally. Go to any church, ask any preacher/priest/rabbi and
he will tell you that Man was made first.
He will tell you that Adam and Eve were real.
He will tell you that the earth was created thousands, not billions, of years ago.

But, what the hell do I know? Not a damn thing!

--------------------------------------------------------------
"STOP DROP AND ROLL WON'T WORK IN HELL" -God

[tetsuokin]

It's quite funny how everyone complains about all these "cults" that spring up telling you to do this or do that, but what people don't understand is that there is still a cult going around that everyone is ok with "Religion", with Christianity being one of the major ones in this, what a load of rubbish this is, all religion is really is something for weak minded people out there to believe in, as they don't like thinking that we're alone on this big ball of mud, flying through life...

I've dabbled in religion, tried a few different ones, Christianity, Buddism, Shinto-ism (Probably the only one that makes any sense), but at the end of the day, i believe in myself and what i do.. There's not a supreme being out there telling us what to do... If he was, then why when i questioned him and said prove you're there?? Nothing happened?

I believe in myself and what i do while i'm living, nothing else!!!

[OLDoMiNiON]

"Earlier in the post, I recommended to all that they should read more than just the bible. I stated that other religious texts are important to finding what is right for you instead of practicing "blind faith". Well, here, I will recommend reading Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species". By reading it you will have a much better understanding of how natural selection is proposed to work, and the knowledge that OLDoMiNiON claims that doesn't exist. There is, in fact, a plethora of knowledge on the subject."

I have read lots of book about Physics/Biology, and found them very interesting and factual. I know how natural selection works. Yes, it's a viable theory. However, what makes me sceptical is the following.
Where are the *substantial* numbers of hybrid animal fossils that should exist, assuming that there possibly thousands of transition stages, over mullions of years, between, e.g apes, and humans? ..sure, a few possible hybrid sceletons have been found.. but why are there so few? surely there should be hundreds of fossils.. not just the odd one.

"I ate the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood once. Mmm. Jesus is tasty!"

The *Catholic* view is that it actully becomes the blood and body of christ as it is digested. Most other Christians just take it as a reminder of what Jesus did for us.

"From my extensive experience, Christians DO take the book of Genesis literally. Go to any church, ask any preacher/priest/rabbi and
he will tell you that Man was made first.
He will tell you that Adam and Eve were real.
He will tell you that the earth was created thousands, not billions, of years ago."

This is such a generalisation! I find it SO annoying that people generalise this way! ..and since when was a Rabbi the leader of a Christian church?? I think you'll find a Rabbi is Jewish, NOT Christian.

And since when was man made first?? He actually was made last! ..well, excluding woman

"It's quite funny how everyone complains about all these "cults" that spring up telling you to do this or do that, but what people don't understand is that there is still a cult going around that everyone is ok with "Religion", with Christianity being one of the major ones in this, what a load of rubbish this is, all religion is really is something for weak minded people out there to believe in, as they don't like thinking that we're alone on this big ball of mud, flying through life... "

Do you have any idea how offensive that paragraph was? If you want to have a propper discussion, not just a flaming spree, then by all means join in, otherwise - go and discuss Protocol issues with somebody who cares what you think!

"I've dabbled in religion, tried a few different ones, Christianity, Buddism, Shinto-ism (Probably the only one that makes any sense), but at the end of the day, i believe in myself and what i do.. There's not a supreme being out there telling us what to do... If he was, then why when i questioned him and said prove you're there?? Nothing happened? "

Maybe because o you attitude? ..your complete unwillingness to accept anything which your sences can absorb? ..i don't know! Humble yourself and ask God! Don't take that as a Judgement, just as a piece of advice.

[jbyrd]

..and since when was a Rabbi the leader of a Christian church?? I think you'll find a Rabbi is Jewish, NOT Christian.

LOL. Well, I am arguing creation. It turns out that Christians AND Jews both believe in the Old Testiment (the time before Christ was born)!! The only difference is that Christians believe in the New Testiment (after Christ was born) while the Jews don't. Like I said, it would be helpful to read up on the other religions!

And since when was man made first?? He actually was made last! ..well, excluding woman

What I mean is, that man was not made from anything else. Creation assumes that man was created by God, and Natural Selection assumes that man was created from neanderthals and the like.

I have read lots of book about Physics/Biology, and found them very interesting and factual. I know how natural selection works. Yes, it's a viable theory. However, what makes me sceptical is the following.
Where are the *substantial* numbers of hybrid animal fossils that should exist, assuming that there possibly thousands of transition stages, over mullions of years, between, e.g apes, and humans? ..sure, a few possible hybrid sceletons have been found.. but why are there so few? surely there should be hundreds of fossils.. not just the odd one.

Well, the answer's lie in "The Origin of Species". Since I can't get you to read it, I will quote some lines from it that may help you understand.
In this particular section of Chapter X: On the Poorness of Palaeontological Collections

One remark is here worth a passing notice. During periods of elevation the area of the land and of the adjoining shoal parts of the sea will be increased, and new stations will often be formed:– all circumstances favourable, as previously explained, for the formation of new varieties and species; but during such periods there will generally be a blank in the geological record. On the other hand, during subsidence, the inhabited area and number of inhabitants will decrease (excepting on the shores of a continent when first broken up into an archipelago), and consequently during subsidence, though there will be much extinction, few new varieties or species will be formed; and it is during these very periods of subsidence, that the deposits which are richest in fossils have been accumulated.

Pretty much, he is saying this: Large sediment deposits relates to large environmental change. You see fossils in these large deposits because the environmental change has devastated certain species that were not well adapted to the change.

What you won't see is fossils from successful intermediate varieties, because they don't die in mass numbers (remember, they are successful).

In fact, the only times that geologists really find fossils is during times of extinction. The times inbetween extinction have very few or no remains.

In the section: On the Absence of Numerous Intermediate Varieties in any Single Formation

It is all–important to remember that naturalists have no golden rule by which to distinguish species and varieties; they grant some little variability to each species, but when they meet with a somewhat greater amount of difference between any two forms, they rank both as species, unless they are enabled to connect them together by the closest intermediate gradations...It is notorious on what excessively slight differences many palaeontologists have founded their species.

In other words, they have found intermediate varieties...it's just that they call them species when they are probably just varieties of the same species. There is really no specific method that is used to determine if two different types of animal are simply a variety of one another or a different species. Naturalists don't believe in natural selection, and therefore don't have any reason to believe that two different animals are simply varieties of one another. They just mark it down as a different species.

It's really interesting. Go here-> http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/d/d22o/
It's the book, if you're interested.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"LOL. Well, I am arguing creation. It turns out that Christians AND Jews both believe in the Old Testiment (the time before Christ was born)!! The only difference is that Christians believe in the New Testiment (after Christ was born) while the Jews don't. Like I said, it would be helpful to read up on the other religions!"

lmao. how stupid do you think i am? of course i know that! i was simply pointing out the fact that to call a Jew a Christian, is like calling an Orange an Apple - it doesn't work!

Gen. 2:

7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

"What I mean is, that man was not made from anything else. Creation assumes that man was created by God, and Natural Selection assumes that man was created from neanderthals and the like."

..that's funny, because i'm sure that it says above, in the bible, that God created man from the "dust of the ground". Maybe you should learn about any religions, before commenting on them


My point towards Charles Darwin and natural selection is not to proclaim it false, only to highlight it as speculation. Was Charles Darwin alive when all this stuff he writes about was going on? no. Therefore he can only guess as to what actually happened! Did God tell him what to write? ..don't think so - therefore, to me, it's harder to believe than are the writings in genesis which i believe to be written by someone who had a very close relationship with God.

I've not read Charles Darwin's stuff, but i've read Asimov's Guide to the biological sciences, which talks along the same lines...
Once again, i'm not trying to disprove natural selection, and i'm not even saying i disagree with it, i'm only questioning your seemingly blind belief in historical biological Science, which is, afterall just guesswork, accompanied by a few facts.
My overall point is, that neither view contradicts the other. Who am i to limit God to one, very vague discription of how man was created.. and who are you to tell me that my belief in the bible teachings is obsered.

[jbyrd]

lmao. how stupid do you think i am? of course i know that! i was simply pointing out the fact that to call a Jew a Christian, is like calling an Orange an Apple - it doesn't work!

You are wrong. First of all, I didn't call a jew a christian. But, it is not like "calling an Orange an Apple". THEY BOTH AGREE WHAT HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING OF TIME! So, yes, IT DOES WORK!

I SAID:

What I mean is, that man was not made from anything else. Creation assumes that man was created by God, and Natural Selection assumes that man was created from neanderthals and the like

You SAID:

Gen. 2:

7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Read the bold print.

My overall point is, that neither view contradicts the other.

My point is, they contradict each other VERY MUCH.

and who are you to tell me that my belief in the bible teachings is obsered.

Please point out where I said this.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"You are wrong. First of all, I didn't call a jew a christian. But, it is not like "calling an Orange an Apple". THEY BOTH AGREE WHAT HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING OF TIME! So, yes, IT DOES WORK!"

OK.
Jew != Christian
Christian != Jew
Jews do not congregate in a church.
However, yes they do believe in the old testament.
Finito.


I was refering to this:

"What I mean is, that man was not made from anything else."

when i quoted this:

Gen. 2:
7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.


"My point is, they contradict each other VERY MUCH."

I really don't have the energy to explain my views further, maybe another time.

[sarf]

Just jumping on the bandwagon for awhile.

My overall point is, that neither view contradicts the other. Who am I to limit God to one, very vague discription of how man was created..

A rational person, since the Book of Books which was written by people inspired by God Herself (directly or indirectly) says 'it is so'.
If God allowed the Book of Genesis to be in Her Big Book of Nasty Things, then I will certainly feel righteous in interpreting what is written in that book - and if people who claim to believe that the book is the literal truth try to squirm away by saying 'Oh, those nasty parts are only symbolical and not meant literally', they won't get any Faith Cookies from me... nor will I allow their memes to infect my mind.

and who are you to tell me that my belief in the bible teachings is obsered

obsered = absurd? obscured? observed? Huh?
In any case, if you are claiming that your faith says this, I feel entitled to tell you what my beliefs are about that issue.
In short, I am Human, thus I prattle on and insult people. It is my Nature, thus I won't stop (even if your energy is sorely lacking).

Thus... my beliefs :

Code: Select all

KNOW YE THIS O MAN OF FAITH!

I - There is no Goddess but Goddess and She is Your Goddess. There is no Erisian Movement but The Erisian Movement and it is The Erisian Movement. And every Golden Apple Corps is the beloved home of a Golden Worm.

II - A Discordian Shall Always use the Official Discordian Document Numbering System.

III - A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns).

IV - A Discordian shall Partake of No Hot Dog Buns, for Such was the Solace of Our Goddess when She was Confronted with The Original Snub.

V - A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing what he reads.

Good luck (or Good Thursday), wherever you may oscillate!

Sarf
---
Hail Eris!
Hail Bob!
Hail Stones!
All Hail Discordia.

[OLDoMiNiON]

"obsered = absurd? obscured? observed? Huh?
In any case, if you are claiming that your faith says this, I feel entitled to tell you what my beliefs are about that issue.
In short, I am Human, thus I prattle on and insult people. It is my Nature, thus I won't stop (even if your energy is sorely lacking). "

Absurd - sorry.
Sure, no problem. It's this kind of oppressive thinking: "what a load of rubbish this is, all religion is really is something for weak minded people out there to believe in", that i was opposed to. Not that you or jbyrd have said anything of the sort - but others have in this thread.

[sam70001]

I am calculating percentage of people that belives in a god, i come to estimate it around 90-92 percentage aroudn the globe. oh well, live and learn, i am getting tired of arugeing with people who live in a fantasy world, my lord! lmao.

[OLDoMiNiON]

hah, get this: *I don't care if you think i'm an idiot for believing in God, just STOP insulting me!*. I do not insult you for being an atheist, or whatever you are, so do me a favour and do the same for me!

[sam70001]

Refer to my new post of "all who believe in sins" for a solution to our suffering. Have a nice day as I am wasting my time here and I got better thing to do, you guy are slowing me down so much I feel like I am crawling through an underground or something. It just my way of showing the world how much I care, but it not easy of trying to get people to wake up from their wonderful fantasy of heaven and souls etc. <--- leading to more confusion.

[OLDoMiNiON]

I'm sorry, i seem to have stunted the growth of an ever-evolving super-man type figure, who seems to be rising in power and stature via a online forum, completely unrelated to his topic of excelency. I beg your pasdon of knowledgeable one. :rolls eyes:

[OLDoMiNiON]

damnit - let us eidt our posts - pleeeease!

"I beg your pasdon of knowledgeable one."
should have been:
"I beg your pardon oh knowledgeable one."